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WAEB: Bobby Gunther Walsh interviews Jim Pfaff – Tariffs & Trade

Published: April 11, 2025
Network: Bobby
Analysis: Conservative Caucus President Jim Pfaff

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As President Trump’s aggressive tariff strategy dominates headlines and rattles markets, Conservative Caucus President Jim Pfaff is making the case that Trump tariffs China policies represent a long-overdue correction to decades of one-sided trade arrangements. In a wide-ranging interview on WAEB with Bobby Gunther Walsh, Pfaff explained why even free-market conservatives should support the administration’s hardball approach to resetting America’s trade posture—particularly with the Chinese Communist Party, which has systematically violated trade rules while stealing American intellectual property for decades.

Topics Covered

• The Conservative Caucus Mission: Constitutional Governance and Judeo-Christian Values
• The Conservative Tariff Debate: Breaking with Milton Friedman
• Two Historical Mistakes That Created Today’s Trade Imbalance
• China’s Systematic Rule-Breaking and Intellectual Property Theft
• Tariff Wars vs. Military Wars: The Strategic Calculation
• National Security Concerns: From Pharmaceuticals to Semiconductors
• The Economics of “Greed” and Fair Competition
• Understanding the Market Reaction and Timeline for Results
• Key Takeaways

The Conservative Caucus Mission: Constitutional Governance and Judeo-Christian Values

Before diving into the tariff controversy, Pfaff outlined The Conservative Caucus’s core mission: advancing policy by empowering citizens at the local level while working to restore America’s constitutional republic. The organization, accessible at TheConservativeCaucus.org, focuses on helping Americans “learn at the local level, boots on the ground” to influence both local and federal government.

“We are constitutionalists. We are out to help us get back to a constitutional republic in the way that we were founded by urging our elected officials to draw us back closer to that document which is what made America great.”
— Jim Pfaff, President, The Conservative Caucus

The organization also advocates for “asserting a rational Judeo-Christian ethic and culture” in politics and policy-making, positioning itself as a defender of traditional American values in an increasingly secular political landscape.

The Conservative Tariff Debate: Breaking with Milton Friedman

The conversation quickly turned to the issue dividing many conservatives: Trump tariffs China and other nations are facing. Host Bobby Gunther Walsh acknowledged the tension, noting that traditional conservative economic thinking—particularly the Austrian School and libertarian perspectives—generally opposes tariffs as market distortions.

Pfaff, who describes himself as coming “from the libertarian Austrian economics side of the issue,” admitted to being a “huge Milton Friedman fan.” However, he took issue with Friedman’s famous dictum that if other countries impose tariffs, the proper response is not to retaliate with tariffs of your own.

“I hate to go against Milton Friedman, you know, a Nobel laureate and brilliant man, but this ‘well someone does tariffs don’t do it back’ just seems irrational to me. In fact, that’s been one of the biggest problems that we’ve had.”
— Jim Pfaff, President, The Conservative Caucus

Pfaff emphasized that he doesn’t support “a massive tariff isolationist structure that’s permanent,” but views Trump’s approach as a necessary reset—a temporary disruption to force other nations, particularly China, to negotiate fairer bilateral trade agreements.

Two Historical Mistakes That Created Today’s Trade Imbalance

To understand why Trump tariffs China and other nations are necessary now, Pfaff walked through two critical historical decisions that created the current imbalanced trade regime:

These policies created a system where American markets remained open while foreign markets—especially China’s—remained protected, subsidized, and manipulated by government intervention.

China’s Systematic Rule-Breaking and Intellectual Property Theft

The case for Trump tariffs China faces becomes even stronger when examining the Communist regime’s systematic violations of international trade rules. Pfaff noted that China has been a member of the World Trade Organization (WTO) since receiving “most favored nation” status in the late 1990s—a designation both Pfaff and Conservative Caucus founder Howard Phillips opposed at the time.

“They break the rules. They do not abide by WTO,” Pfaff explained. “And I hate these internationalist organizations anyway, but they don’t even abide by those even though they say they will. They steal our intellectual property and then utilize it to resell it back into our markets.”

The interview highlighted an interesting historical footnote: Nancy Pelosi herself opposed granting China most favored nation status in the 1990s, citing concerns about tariffs and unfair trade practices. “She flip-flopped,” Walsh noted, pointing to the political opportunism that has characterized both parties’ approach to China over the decades.

Tariff Wars vs. Military Wars: The Strategic Calculation

Walsh made a compelling strategic argument that reframed the Trump tariffs China debate: “I’d rather fight a tariff war than a real war. If this prevents a war, I mean… if the tariffs may not work, but if they do, it solves so many problems.”

This perspective views tariffs not merely as economic policy but as an alternative to military confrontation with an increasingly aggressive China. The economic pressure created by tariffs could potentially:

• Cripple China’s military expansion by reducing revenue flowing to the Communist regime
• Prevent China from using American dollars to fund its Belt and Road initiative and military modernization
• Force Beijing to negotiate rather than escalate regional tensions in Taiwan, the South China Sea, and elsewhere
• Reduce American dependence on a potential adversary for critical goods

Pfaff acknowledged the validity of this strategic calculation while maintaining his preference for “having as much love and peace with other countries” and not believing “we just go to war or put a military stance” as the first option.

National Security Concerns: From Pharmaceuticals to Semiconductors

Beyond the economic arguments for Trump tariffs China must contend with, the discussion highlighted serious national security vulnerabilities created by decades of outsourcing to China:

Pharmaceutical Dependence: Walsh noted that “pharmaceuticals are made in China. There’s no quality control there, number one. And number two, if they wanted to and cut off all of our pharmaceuticals in spite, then we’re up the creek.”

Semiconductor Reliance: Critical chips needed for everything from smartphones to military systems have supply chains running through China and Taiwan—the latter being under constant threat of Chinese invasion.

Steel and Manufacturing: Basic industrial capacity has been hollowed out, making America dependent on foreign suppliers even for defense-critical materials.

“Those security concerns are valid and they must be in limited circumstances part of how we deal with international trade and definitely as it deals with our posture with China. Listen, China is out on a long-term basis to dominate the world. That is what they want to do. It’s a publicly stated stance.”
— Jim Pfaff, President, The Conservative Caucus

Pfaff drew a distinction between the Chinese Communist Party’s ambitions and the Chinese people themselves, noting he has “a lot of Chinese friends in Singapore and Taiwan.” The issue is the regime’s ideology and stated goal of global dominance, not the Chinese people or culture broadly.

The Economics of “Greed” and Fair Competition

The conversation touched on Milton Friedman’s famous Phil Donahue interview from the late 1970s, where Friedman addressed accusations of American “greed.” Walsh paraphrased Friedman’s response: “What is greed? We’re all greedy… You don’t think that Russia’s greedy? You don’t think that China’s greedy? They’re all greedy and so we don’t have a right to look after what’s best for us.”

Pfaff expanded on this, explaining how market economics actually channels self-interest toward positive outcomes:

“The greed thing can be mitigated through economics because what do you have to do to be economically successful? If you’re just the greediest person in the world and you want to become a billionaire, how do you do that? You create products that people want to buy. You treat your employees well enough so that they can produce those products or services… And then at the end of the day, you’re following the golden rule and you still may be the greediest jerk in the world.”
— Jim Pfaff, President, The Conservative Caucus

This framework—what Pfaff describes as “basically Christian principle”—underpins the case for Trump tariffs China faces: not as permanent protectionism, but as a reset that forces all parties to compete on fair terms where hard work and innovation are rewarded rather than government manipulation and intellectual property theft.

Understanding the Market Reaction and Timeline for Results

Addressing concerns about stock market volatility following the announcement of Trump tariffs China and other nations face, Pfaff provided important context about how to interpret market movements:

“When you’re looking at the stock market, these are investors and investment firms that are betting on the future,” he explained. “It does not predict necessarily accurately that things are going down. This is a human calculation that’s being made.”

Both Pfaff and Walsh pushed back against the media narrative demanding immediate results. “We need to push back on this everything’s got to be solved in 60-second mantra,” Pfaff argued. Walsh noted the contradiction: “Two, three weeks ago when he was making all these executive orders… ‘oh my god, it’s only 62 days. What damage he’s done.’ Now he’s been at the economy for only 62 days and he’s supposed to have solved it all.”

Importantly, Pfaff emphasized: “There’s no major risk of recession right now. There’s only a very mild risk of recession. So that’s another thing to take into account here. This is not destructive. It’s healthy destruction if one wants to put it that way.”

Key Takeaways

1. Trump Tariffs China Strategy Is a Reset, Not Permanent Protectionism – Pfaff supports the tariffs as a temporary measure to force renegotiation of unfair trade arrangements, not as a long-term isolationist policy. The goal is bilateral agreements with fair terms.
2. Two Historical Mistakes Created Current Imbalance – Post-WWII policies that kept U.S. tariffs artificially low and Clinton-era globalization that benefited large corporations at the expense of American workers created the current one-sided system.
3. China Systematically Violates Trade Rules – Despite WTO membership, China breaks rules, steals intellectual property, and manipulates its economy through government intervention while selling products back into open U.S. markets.
4. National Security Requires Trade Reset – American dependence on China for pharmaceuticals, semiconductors, and other critical goods creates unacceptable vulnerabilities that tariffs can help address by reshoring production.
5. Economic Pressure Is Preferable to Military Confrontation – Tariffs represent a non-military tool to counter China’s global ambitions and reduce funding for the Communist regime’s military expansion.
6. Market Volatility Doesn’t Equal Economic Collapse – Stock market reactions reflect investor uncertainty about future conditions, not necessarily accurate predictions. Companies focused on the domestic U.S. market face less risk than multinationals.
7. Results Require Time and Patience – Decades of trade imbalance cannot be corrected in 60 days. The administration deserves time to negotiate new arrangements before judging the policy’s success or failure.
8. Even Free-Market Conservatives Can Support Strategic Tariffs – While permanent protectionism contradicts free-market principles, temporary tariffs to establish fair competition and reciprocal access align with conservative values of fair dealing and national interest.

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About The Conservative Caucus:
The Conservative Caucus is a grassroots public policy action organization, formed in 1974. Headed by President Jim Pfaff, the Caucus is committed to advancing free enterprise, limited government, and traditional values.

Originally broadcast April 11, 2025 on Bobby.